M¡§†®€§§
EagleClan Member 
plllzzzzzz
Posts: 570
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Post by M¡§†®€§§ on Apr 26, 2006 16:43:07 GMT -5
Here is a why, we civilian Americans don't take shit from no one, even ourselves.... www.stillfree.com/2 vids watch em. |
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M¡§†®€§§
EagleClan Member
plllzzzzzz
Posts: 570
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Post by M¡§†®€§§ on Apr 26, 2006 21:20:40 GMT -5
sounds like right wing radical radio to me gb. at least he DID something.  as opposed to just bitching about the system like almost everyone else. He took risks to achieve, what may be a simple publicity stunt, to get a message across. but honestly, marketing is how laws have been passed for over 200 years.....ever hear of Lobbyists? thats their job, to sell their idea to Law Makers. it never hurts to speak out, and sometimes you have to grab someones attention to be heard. |
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Post by liv on Apr 26, 2006 22:46:38 GMT -5
i just came from watching the vid and listening to what he has to say. i applaud his words. His actions get his point across without violence and that is saying something. Is it something i would have done? i don't think so but not because i don't agree. To be honest, i don't think i would have had the courage.
In a way, i agree with you, GB. It WAS a publicity stunt but then so are many protests. i mean, what is the point of protesting something ... anything ... if no one ever finds out about it? How can a message be delivered to the public without publicity? This is something all politicians have realized since the Egyptians began carving hieroglyphics in the desert.
Yes, Air Force One is maintained by tax dollars. But how much is spent on a yearly basis in the upkeep, staffing and fuelling of, not just one, but 2 of these aircraft? That perturbs me more that the cost of removing some paint.
It's easy to be political in an armchair fashion...to sit around and talk and talk and talk ... but this guy did something.
By the way....where was the much vaunted security?
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M¡§†®€§§
EagleClan Member
plllzzzzzz
Posts: 570
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Post by M¡§†®€§§ on Apr 26, 2006 23:44:10 GMT -5
This is about the things that threaten us. More so than terrorists, our freedom of speech (in public and at work), personal privacy, the judicial system, and the list goes on. This stunt, had a point. despite this guys background. The point is valid on all levels. But not everyone sees past the bullshit. this stupid stunt, has merit.
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M¡§†®€§§
EagleClan Member
plllzzzzzz
Posts: 570
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Post by M¡§†®€§§ on Apr 26, 2006 23:49:22 GMT -5
and while i am thinking about it, GOD knows we all need entertainment while waiting for the train to cross the road! but thats JUST FOR FUN!
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M¡§†®€§§
EagleClan Member
plllzzzzzz
Posts: 570
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Post by M¡§†®€§§ on Apr 27, 2006 0:02:01 GMT -5
I am not 'talking' to you. I initially responded to what I had hoped would be a meaningful discussion about something which is very important in our world today. I see however that you have taken this attempt and made it less than what it was designed to be. *shrugs* so be it.....
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Post by liv on Apr 27, 2006 0:06:23 GMT -5
GB, i believe in freedom of speech. i don't believe in censorship. i do, however, believe that if someone paints something on the side of my house and i don't like it, i get rid of it. That is not censorship. That is pride of ownership. If you made posts that were deleted, perhaps it was not so much censorship as it was "housekeeping". i cannot speak to that for i don't know the posts you have referenced.
There is a huge difference between making a political statement and having posts erased because there was a complaint.
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Post by liv on Apr 27, 2006 0:18:19 GMT -5
i disagree. In my opinion, what Mark Echo did was a political statement. He offended some, probably a great many. But in the end, the paint was removed from the plane and i highly doubt any unauthorized person will get that close again. That is their "housekeeping", i suppose.
Freedom of speech carries with it a great deal of responsibility. And it is hard to know where the freedom ends and simply basic good manners take over. i am the first to admit that i could not and would not attempt to draw that line. i know that i would not go into a friend's house ... one who carries strong Christian convictions ... and sit there and state that those convictions are wrong and outmoded. i still have my freedom but i choose to exercise discretion. On the other hand, i would not hesitate to join an anti-poverty march and make my views known....as long as...and this is important here, i kept it political and humanist....and not personal.
If i post something in a forum where i am visiting or if i make a comment in a friend's living room .... if my post or my comment are deemed offensive, and if my post is removed or i am asked not to make such comments again, i have not lost my freedom. And my host is exercising his freedom as well.
It's all semantics.
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M¡§†®€§§
EagleClan Member
plllzzzzzz
Posts: 570
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Post by M¡§†®€§§ on Apr 27, 2006 0:29:14 GMT -5
As liv said, a political debate (which this was intended to be) should not contain personal jabs or digs for that detracts from the core of the subject. you stab i WILL stab back....BUT This is about someone who has a passion and who acted on that passion in a way that harmed no one and yet made a point. Agree or disagree with the methodology if you will but you have to admit he is correct
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M¡§†®€§§
EagleClan Member
plllzzzzzz
Posts: 570
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Post by M¡§†®€§§ on Apr 27, 2006 0:37:08 GMT -5
OK i will buy the lacquer, you buy the jet. |
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Post by liv on Apr 27, 2006 0:37:58 GMT -5
GB, we are all censored to one extent or another every day. Complete and total freedom is a utopian ideal. Case in point: seatbelt laws. It is the law that we have to wear seatbelts while in a moving car. Are we given any freedom in that? No. If we are caught, we are fined. Is it a good law? i think the statistics would say it is. Do i like wearing a seatbelt? i hate it. Do i comply? Yes. i know the discomfort of having the danged thing practically choking me is far outweighed by the safety it provides. And my compliance with that law costs me nothing.
But....when my basic rights and freedoms are in danger of being taken away from me ... when laws are enacted which have no bearing in anything but fear, then i have a real problem. The laws in NYC forbidding ownership of markers unless you are 21 are just WRONG. If, as you stated, the reason is because of gangs, depriving the gangs of markers is like trying to fix the San Andreas Fault line with ... a bandaid. It ain't gonna work.
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Post by liv on Apr 27, 2006 0:46:45 GMT -5
Oh, i don't disagree with you there but are the reasons well thought out? And how far can we allow the laws to go before we are living in a totalitarian state? As i stated, are the laws based in fear or are they well planned? We all have to remain aware and active. Are the laws made to protect the individual or the state? Or, are they enacted to protect the law makers?
Don't fool yourself by thinking that all laws are good and are for the good of humanity. Many are for the good of the political machine. And THAT is the big picture.
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M¡§†®€§§
EagleClan Member
plllzzzzzz
Posts: 570
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Post by M¡§†®€§§ on Apr 27, 2006 0:48:46 GMT -5
ACTIVE!!!!!!!!
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M¡§†®€§§
EagleClan Member
plllzzzzzz
Posts: 570
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Post by M¡§†®€§§ on Apr 27, 2006 0:52:52 GMT -5
agreed, that act was is and always will be crap. but it itself comes down to the same issues as stated b4.... and it being mostly privacy
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M¡§†®€§§
EagleClan Member
plllzzzzzz
Posts: 570
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Post by M¡§†®€§§ on Apr 27, 2006 0:55:24 GMT -5
In the end, it comes down to OUR rights, as Americans.....MANY of which are now gone...... but THAT WAS STATED B4!!!!!
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